INTERVIEW: Dmytro Cipywnyk on the viability of the Ukrainian World Congress
Ukrainian World Congress President Dr. Dmytro Cipywnyk was in Toronto recently for the plenary meetings of its presidium and to celebrate the international umbrella body's 30th anniversary.
Dr. Cipywnyk was elected to the post in November 1993, and has overseen the organization's return to fiscal solvency, broad expansion of its membership base to include many Ukrainian communities formerly behind the Iron Curtain and elsewhere, the revival of its Church Commission, and most recently, the revival of its vaunted Human Rights Commission.
His record of leadership in both the Ukrainian and non-Ukrainian communities is extensive. A past president of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress (1986-1992), in 1992 he was awarded the UCC's Centennial Bronze Medal for Community Service. In the spring of 1996, Dr. Cipywnyk decided not to run for another term as president of the Canadian Ethnocultural Council (a position he held from March 1993) in order to devote himself more fully to UWC duties.
A psychiatrist and physician by training (retiring from active practice in 1992), Dr. Cipywnyk continues to act as a consultant to Saskatoon's Royal University Hospital (where he was associate clinical professor for psychiatry from 1972), and is a participant of the Canadian Health Society's Partners in Health Program, as a member of its Ukraine-Russia advisory committee. He is also a member of the University of Saskatchewan's Ukraine Relations Advisory Council.
Dr. Cipywnyk was invested into the Order of Canada in October 1992 and received Ukraine's Shevchenko Medal in 1995. That year he was also awarded an honorary doctorate of canon law by St. Andrew's College at Manitoba University.
The interview was conducted in Toronto on June 3 by Andrij Kudla Wynnyckyj.
PART I
Q: At the recent plenary meetings, the president of the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America tabled a document in which he questioned the viability of the Ukrainian World Congress. Please comment.
A: I believe that the document circulated by Askold Lozynskyj about the UWC was largely tongue in cheek. I believe its main purpose was to stimulate discussion. For example, with characteristic wit, he suggested that the UWC is a "Torontonian" organization. Well, I think it's time that myth was put to rest.
We recently proposed that the seventh congress be held somewhere else, rather than in Toronto as it has since the 1970s. [Two congresses were held in New York City, the inaugural congress of 1967 and the third congress in 1978.] However, only London, England, expressed interest. After jointly comparing the costs involved, we quickly determined that it would be twice as expensive to hold a congress in London as in Toronto.
As for the U.S., well, we didn't get a single offer from New York, Washington, anywhere. They couldn't even face the prospect of organizing a weeklong series of meetings, and yet they want move the headquarters there?
The responsibilities that come with running the central administration are quite vast. The entire committee and commission infrastructure would have to be moved. And yet, during the plenary meetings people took the proposition seriously. As I'm sure you heard, many were even enthusiastic about the idea, it's just that it has consequences.
Iroida Wynnyckyj, head of the World Ukrainian Coordinating Educational Council, asked Mr. Lozynskyj whether he'd thought his proposal through because of what it entailed in terms of reorganizing the council's work, gauging the availability of volunteer staff, finding office space, moving data files, and so forth. Olga Danylak of the World Council of Social Services (WCSS) expressed similar sentiments.
To address another issue, in his document Mr. Lozynskyj suggests that we all meld into some form of an "All-World Ukrainian" community. I found this absolutely inappropriate.
How can I be part of such a thing? I am a citizen of Canada, and my primary loyalty is to Canada. As members of the diaspora who have formed strong ties to the countries where we live, this question of dual allegiance should never be raised this way. It's not a healthy way to proceed given the ethnic composition of Ukraine's population either.
Q: How about the logic of moving UWC's headquarters to New York because the United Nations are also there?
A: I don't believe the UWC needs to move to New York to raise its profile at the U.N. It hasn't needed to until now. Recently our WCSS got observer status with UNICEF. The World Federation of Ukrainian Women's Organizations secured standing with the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council some time ago.
Just because we have or desire connection to various world bodies doesn't mean we have to move our headquarters closer to theirs.
Q: How does it feel to be the UWC president as the seventh congress draws near? Has any jockeying for the presidency begun?
A: Not that I'm aware of. Of course, the rumors have begun to circulate, but most of the activity comes from the various organizations seeking to make submissions to the by-laws committee, looking for changes to the UWC's structure and functioning.
Q: As the plenary sessions began on May 30, with maybe 20 people in the hall, you looked tired and dispirited.
A: It was very depressing.
Q: Do you have any regrets about quitting the presidency of the Canadian Ethnocultural Council to take the UWC on full time, given that Canada is passing through such an important moment in its history?
A: No, I don't regret that at all. I think it would have been a mistake to have stayed on with the CEC for one more term. I strongly believe that there should be a frequent change in the presidency there. You run out of ideas, out of spirit, you get tired of bickering and lack of consensus.
But that's part and parcel of any organization, the UWC included. I read quite a lot in preparation for these plenary meetings, because I wanted to renew my sense of this organization's history. And you know, things got pretty rough along the way. In the beginning, many thought the idea would never jell - there was so much mistrust among all the political factions.
Now you can have Lozynskyj distribute a document in which he questions the viability of the UWC and people are able to at once see the humor in his approach and be willing to debate the matters of substance he raises. So it seems the UWC has come a long way.
Then again, the UWC has now reached a stage where we're spinning our wheels. When I look out at a meeting and don't see the people of the various business concerns active in Ukraine, and don't see the various professionals who are active in the community here, I know that the UWC still has a lot to accomplish to make itself a fully viable and representative institution.
When the Bulletin doesn't go out on time, and when it goes out and it's of inferior quality, then I get mad. It's our lifeline to the community. But then again, the contributions keep coming in - that's the way we've gotten to being a quarter-of-a-million bucks in the black.
As far as having 20 or so people at the first session is concerned, you can't be deterred by the cycles of interest and involvement, both at the community level, and at the level of the individual activists who attend meetings. You have to understand the dynamics of an organization's life, and make constant demands on yourself. It's not enough to ensure that what you want done gets done, you have to encourage others to provide their input, to stimulate them to think creatively and aggressively.
Q: Do you think the revival of the Commission on Human and Civil Rights will do something in this regard?
A: Absolutely. I'm very glad to have Christina [Isajiw] back on board. I'm particularly happy to see that she has expressed an interest to work on helping set some of the UWC's priorities, because that's very much what we need to do before we start rushing in with offers of help to Ukrainian minorities in Poland, Russia or anywhere elsewhere. Once we get focused, then we can move forward in this area.
Q: So moving on minority rights issues is premature at the moment?
A: No, it's not premature. We simply need to have someone of Ms. Isajiw's caliber to help sort through what the UWC can address effectively and then make moves.
The reality is that while we have maintained this institution fairly well, and have retained its credibility to a large extent, things have changed dramatically around us and as Prof. [Wsevolod] Isajiw pointed out in his talk during the panel the NTSh [Shevchenko Scientific Society] organized, the UWC has to be brought into alignment with the new realities the diaspora lives with.
Copyright © The Ukrainian Weekly, July 20, 1997, No. 29, Vol. LXV
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