INTERVIEW: Ukrainian World Congress President Askold Lozynskyj (03/28/99)

INTERVIEW: Ukrainian World Congress President Askold Lozynskyj

Following a meeting of the Presidium of the Ukrainian World Congress at its headquarters in Toronto on February 19-20, Andrij Kudla Wynnyckyj of The Weekly's Toronto Press Bureau conducted the following interview with the UWC's new president, Askold Lozynskyj, who was elected at the congress in December 1998.

Q: How have the first 100 days gone in your term as UWC president? What kind of issues have been identified and what kind of momentum do you hope you're building for the next five years?

A: The first 100 days were essentially devoted to administratively setting things up.

We must develop a system of communication that is suitable for a world community organization. Being able to communicate with the community in Russia, Australia, what have you, in the least expensive possible manner, is a priority. To this end, we will establish a smoothly functioning website on the Internet and an e-mail network.

Another priority is getting our message across to non-Ukrainians everywhere that there is a worldwide community. In my opinion, if we become more visible, we'll become more of a force to deal with.

In terms of issues, there is the matter of the Ukrainian minority in Slovakia. This is a test case. Insofar as Ukrainians in Slovakia are being discriminated against, we should be able to put ourselves in a position to exert some pressure on the government. This should be easier now that the Slovak government is pro-West, or West-oriented, as opposed to the administration of [former President Vladimir] Meciar.

We need to develop better relations with the Ukrainian government. The government should see the diaspora as more than a source of occasional capital infusion for its diplomatic missions and take our recommendations seriously. We hope to have an impact on how cultural and educational policy is made in Ukraine.

The Ukrainian government often simply ignores the diaspora and yet, when they need us for financial purposes, they seem to find us. In some sense, it has to be a carrot-and-stick approach - if you want our assistance, you're also going to have to accept our advice and criticism.

Another area of concern, to my mind, is that the UWC has not developed a sufficient political status as a non-governmental organization. To remedy this, I believe we should secure recognition by the United Nations.

We are now attempting to become members of the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) with consultative status. This is a difficult process. We have a lot of work to do and the deadline is June 1.

The UWC itself must reform. Much of the UWC's administrative structure is antiquated and its by-laws are chaotic. We don't have rules of procedure for our committees, commissions and councils. We have a foundation that functions in support of the UWC, but in essence there is no legal binding relationship between the foundation and the UWC.

According to the by-laws, we are a Western diaspora organization, while we should establish ourselves as an all-diaspora organization.

Q: At the recent congress in December 1998, three models had been examined: that the UWC represents the Western diaspora exclusively; that it is all-diaspora; that it would like to represent the Eastern diaspora, but given limited resources this needs to be approached cautiously. Do you believe that the ensuing debate resolved this question?

A: If you had asked me this question five years ago, I would have said the UWC is a Western-diasporan organization, but that there is a need for an all-diasporan organization. At that point, I thought the Ukrainian World Coordinating Council would be able to carry out this function.

Unfortunately, the UWCC has been a dismal failure.

I think there is a need for an all-encompassing, all-diaspora organization that deals with the Ukrainian government, as well as the governments of the world, on an equal footing, in defense of Ukrainian minorities no matter where they reside.

This situation has evolved substantially in the past five years, and I think that since the UWCC hasn't worked out, this forces the UWC into a new role.

Q: Based on a decision of the February 19-20 UWC Presidium meeting, three UWC representatives will be traveling to a UWCC session in Kyiv in May. During the proceedings just concluded, you mentioned that the UWCC has distanced itself from its Soviet past. However, some UWC officials suggested that concerns over by-laws, conflict of interest and financial/budgetary matters had not been addressed. Do you believe that UWCC President Ivan Drach can now be prompted to address these issues?

A: To my mind, the problems with the by-laws were not all that significant. We are working off a set that was registered with the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice in 1995. To be sure, when the ministry had subsequently asked the UWCC to change some language to bring them into line with Ukrainian law, UWCC officials added some things that the UWC was not informed about, and that's the problem.

However, these are minor difficulties, not of great concern.

In terms of the UWCC budget, the problem is one of financial accountability. A budget is submitted annually at their general meetings, but there is no subsequent accounting.

They have a radically different understanding of accounting than we do. For instance, there is constant commingling of funds among various organizations, there is no distinction made between business activities and non-business activities.

One of the biggest arguments we had with them was over one of the UWCC's purpose clauses. It was stated that the UWCC was to conduct commercial activities, but we pointed out that this is not appropriate for a civic, non-governmental organization, but they don't understand that.

They also don't understand conflict of interest. That's, unfortunately, the mentality they have. It's, unfortunately, true of many organizations in Ukraine, but it's going to take a while for them to change, and we have to be patient. I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle.

I think the reason the UWCC is not a functioning entity is because of its leadership. There are plenty of capable people in Ukraine, and Mr. Drach is an excellent poet, but he's a terrible administrator.

Q: Meanwhile, his term continues for another three years?

A: That's right. But he's willing to step down at any time, and he suggested as much at the last [worldwide Ukrainian] forum, but nobody was willing to step up and run for or assume the presidency.

Q: What are the major obstacles facing the UWC as an effective representative body?

A: A malaise in the community. Some no longer believe the UWC is necessary. Some are convinced the Ukrainian government stands up for the interests of Ukrainians everywhere, whereas in actuality the government is finding it difficult to effectively protect the interests of Ukrainians within its own country.

Of course, the circumstances are somewhat understandable, since it's a fledgling state. However, some factors are less so. For example, corruption is pervasive, the criminality is amazing. Former Prime Minister Pavlo Lazarenko is a case in point. Unfortunately it seems that he is more the norm than the exception.

Q: A recent letter to the editor to The Ukrainian Weekly questioned whether the UWC is still relevant. Would you care to comment?

A: Yes, I read that. Essentially, Mr. [George] Primak's argument boils down to a conviction that the Ukrainian government can fulfill the UWC's role.

He's correct in some areas, for instance in his criticism that the UWC didn't pursue the issue of compensation of Ukrainians victimized by Germany's policies during the second world war, as the World Jewish Congress did.

However, we are on top of the issue now and intend to make our representations in this area, make claim forms available to members of the community, and so on.

To a certain extent, the criticism stems from a comparison to the World Jewish Congress. You can't really compare the UWC and the WJC fairly because the latter represents as many people as the state of Israel does, and draws on considerably greater resources.

For the longest time the UWC attempted to represent a fragmented community of at most 4 million Ukrainians worldwide, with only tenuous external legitimacy.

Just as the state of Israel has been a remarkable focus for the Jewish community, so I believe [Ukraine] should be for the Ukrainian diaspora.

In the past, we in the Ukrainian diaspora were often simply dismissed as fringe elements concerned with the freedom of a supposedly non-existent entity - Ukraine. Our local political representatives, congressmen, senators, what have you, would talk to us as constituents, but quietly they went back to their offices thinking that we were nuts.

Now Ukraine is a formidable force. Even if it does absolutely nothing, its geostrategic location makes it a focus of policy. The certification of aid for Ukraine by the U.S. happened not because the Ukrainian government had made sufficient progress, but because the U.S. administration was afraid to send the wrong message; was afraid to lose Ukraine as an ally in that part of the world.

The UWC as a diasporan organization should capitalize on this.

Q: To return to the UWC's relationship with the Ukrainian government, you were recently in Ukraine and had difficulties in securing an audience with President Leonid Kuchma. Was this simply circumstantial or a snub?

A: I was told that there wasn't enough time. It could have been a personal snub. I know the president was very upset when Mr. Lazarenko came to the U.S. [in 1997] and was hosted by me at my house.

In Ukraine, if you meet with a person the perception is that you fully support their politics or their positions. When [former prime minister Yevhen] Marchuk spoke at a recent convention of the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America, the next day a newspaper in Ukraine reported that the UCCA had endorsed Mr. Marchuk for president.

I met with Mr. Marchuk when I was in Ukraine recently and one of his friends wrote in a periodical that the UWC supports his candidacy. But I met with [former Foreign Affairs Minister Hennadii] Udovenko, too, and I will be meeting with Oleksander Tkachenko in May, I hope to meet with Oleksander Moroz, and so on.

My intention as UWC president is to meet with every candidate to present issues that are of concern to the Ukrainian community in the diaspora. We can't do anything about the elections in Ukraine, and we don't intend to interfere, but we can certainly let them know where we stand.

Q: The new UWC administration seems to be a mix of veterans and new blood.

A: I'm actually very happy with both my executive and the heads of national representations around the world. Australia, France, Canada have young blood coming in.

The older generations have done an excellent job, and there is now a new leadership in the community.

Although the December congress could have been more successful, in terms of numbers, in terms of composition of the delegates it was very good and the discussions were very worthwhile.

I have a good relationship with Mr. [Viktor] Pedenko, the secretary general, Ms. [Maria] Szkambara, the vice-president, and believe that I've already established a good working relationship with the entire presidium.

And central to our communications strategy is newcomer Oksana Horikh, chairman of the Conference of Ukrainian Youth Organizations. She'll be coordinating the construction of our website.

Ms. Horikh is very energetic, she has a plan of action as to how to integrate the activities of Ukrainian students, first in North America, and then around the world. She's exactly the kind of person the UWC has needed to attract.

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