INTERVIEW: Cardinal Lubomyr Husar comments on upcoming papal visit

This interview with Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, major archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, was conducted in Lviv on April 1 by Marta Kolomayets and Andriy Waskowycz.

Q: Your Beatitude, the visit of Pope John Paul II to Ukraine is the first visit of a Slavic pope to a Slavic country of the former Soviet Union. What does this visit mean for the people of Ukraine?

A: This can be considered on a number of different levels. From the cultural aspect, it is a fact that the pope, a Slav, will come to Ukraine and speak Ukrainian. From a religious aspect, the pope's visit is one that ushers good news of hope in today's times. He understands all the hardships that we currently face because of the course of his own life in a Communist regime, and later in a transitional society. Perhaps a pope from a different background, one who was not a victim of communism would not understand the situation as well as His Holiness John Paul II. So, we can assess this situation on a number of levels: on a cultural level as a Slav among Slavs; as a person who has lived through the same history and whose experience is similar to our peoples; and on a purely religious level as the bearer of hope.

Q: What meaning does this visit have for the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, which 10 years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union can now develop freely?

A: First of all, I think we have to look to the past, to Soviet times when we were persecuted mainly because we are Catholics. Although our traditions are rooted in Byzantium, we recognize the bishop of Rome, as the successor to St. Peter and the Holy See of the unified ecumenical Church. The Orthodox tell us - and they do have a certain point - that people who wanted to go to church in Soviet times could do so, for the Church did exist and many people did go to Orthodox services, but this does not mean that they became Orthodox. The entire structure of the underground Church, as well as most of the faithful in Halychyna, in western Ukraine, were of the Greek-Catholic faith. So, the visit of the pope is a meeting with the successor to St. Peter, with the symbol and the seat of ecumenical unity for which they were persecuted.

Q: Can this visit become an impulse for the move toward ecumenism?

A: We hope this is the case, but it is difficult to predict because this is not something automatic. This will depend on how Catholics, Greek-Catholics and Orthodox perceive the papal visit. They can accept it as a matter of curiosity, to see yet another famous man. Or, the reaction can be negative, a kind of rejection, something to ponder: What does separate us? Is the pope our enemy? Very much depends on how the people of Ukraine perceive this visit. We have to clearly separate what the official position is - the calculated stand of the leaders of the Church, and the criteria of Church politics - and how the grassroots faithful in parishes react to this visit. How will the people of Ukraine perceive this visit, will the people wish for unity?

Q: We are also interested in your reaction to the fact that now, not only Patriarch Aleksei of Russia, but also the Russian government is against the papal visit to Ukraine. They are also playing games with the Roman Catholics in Russia, asking them to support the idea that this is not the right time for a papal visit.

A: It seems clear to me that this is a purely state-political, or Church-political game. But this cannot be ignored. I must add that the success is on the religious level. The goal of the papal visit is not political, or even Church-political. In the end, the pope wants to visit the faithful of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic and the Latin-rite Churches. He also wants to visit Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, not in the form of a state visit of some president to another nation who will only have meetings with state officials.

The pope is coming to Ukraine mainly as a spiritual leader. And I think this is how we should view this visit. The various protests, whether they are state or Church-political should be very carefully examined because they reflect the views of the leadership and how they see their people, their Church.

And there is another side to this: how will the people perceive this and what will they see as good or evil? Of course, a lot will depend on guidance from the top, but, in this day and age people no longer willingly accept what is dictated from the top.

Q: Is there a problem with the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches: the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church or the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kyiv Patriarchate?

A: Until now, they have been pretty positive about the visit - they are ready to greet the pope, I would say even happy to do so. Once again, we have to distinguish between the stands of the hierarchy and the people. I think it is very important to underscore that the pope has no intention of converting Ukraine to Catholicism, particularly he does not intend to preach Catholicism in the Latin Rite. The pope is coming to those who are already Catholics and turning to everyone with the Word of God. I think that we have no basis to talk about the pope's visit as some kind of proselytizing. The pope's aim is not to turn people to the Catholic Church, but first of all, to God in general. This intention is also for the Catholics, who need strengthening and support in their faith.

Q: This is a state visit; is there cooperation between the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church and the state in regard to the visit?

A: In principle, it is planned that these three institutions will cooperate, but we see that this cooperation is not always so easy. Very often we simplify matters: we talk about our Church as if it were one Catholic Church, but with two rites, two liturgical traditions. We often hush up the fact that we are two particular Churches - each with its own traditions, its own hierarchies, its own particularities and now we should work with the leadership of one spiritual center, one bishop or one metropolitan for all of Ukraine. No, we have two separate, complete Church structures.

In our case, we are home in Ukraine, in the sense that there is no other place in the world where the Particular Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church has its head and its center. The Latin Church in Ukraine is in a totally different position because the Latin Church is centered in Rome, and has metropolitans scattered in Ukraine and all over the world. So, when we talk about cooperation, we have to talk about this in the narrowest sense of the word.

Q: The Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church has strived for a Patriarchate for a long time. Could the visit of the pope help in this process?

A: I hope so. The issue is not in recognition of a Patriarchate, the issue is in recognizing our structure as patriarchal. The issue is not of a religious character, but rather Church-organizational. In as much as we are a particular Church headed by a major archbishop, we possess practically all the features of a patriarchal Church. The problem is in the formal final arrangement, since the difference between a patriarch and major archbishop is not very substantial, not structural. A patriarchate is a more traditional form, and it highlights the particularity of a Church of Eastern tradition even more. Then the dialogue is between equals.

I was recently informed about a letter to Patriarch Bartholomew with very negative expressions about the Uniate Church. The letter affirms that he has the intention of coming to Ukraine. Perhaps the aim of his visit is the establishment of autocephaly for the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. I have asked Patriarch Filaret about this and he said: "If there will be an autocephaly, the Patriarchate follows automatically." If they have a canonically recognized Patriarchate, and we have only a major archbishop, then we will be only second and it will not be possible to talk as equals.

Q: Is there a possibility that the pope's visit may be canceled either due to the political instability in Ukraine or because of the Russian Orthodox Church's pressure?

A: No, I think the visit will take place. It has been very clearly said both by the pope and by the Ukrainian government. What kind of instability would there have to be for a revolution? And whether it be [Ukraine's President Leonid] Kuchma or someone else, there will be a head of state. I do not predict social upheaval of such scope that would lead to total chaos and that would prevent the pope from coming. The government has clearly stated that it has the will for this visit to happen.

So, independent of what Moscow and others say, the pope has decided that he will come. When the pope spoke with [Russian President Vladimir] Putin and [Prime Minister Mikhail] Kasianov, Mr. Putin had said very clearly, although not officially, that he would welcome the pope in Russia, but he cannot overcome the opposition of Patriarch Aleksei. I think they feel very offended that the pope will visit Ukraine first, and that by this visit he emphasizes that Ukraine is the cradle and the center of Slavic Christianity, not Moscow. And this irritates them very much.

Putin wants to have the pope in Russia for the same reasons as Kuchma, because it is, say, a ticket to Europe - spiritually, not formally. This would make Russia an almost European country. But it seems like Putin cannot overcome the opposition of Patriarch Aleksei. He said that quite clearly. He spoke about the Orthodox Church quite objectively. Maybe the patriarch persuades them somehow, the pressure is present there. But, since we know that the pope had very clearly, very formally stated that he is coming, and our government has unequivocally confirmed this, only a total collapse here would prevent the pope from coming.

Q: Concerning the political situation in Ukraine is the UGCC able to play a role in solving political conflict and what are the ways to solve it?

A: It is very difficult because of the amorphous nature of the conflict. We need to define who is the opposition and who is speaking on behalf of the opposition. In my opinion, we are lacking an organized force. I prepared a brief appeal for Easter on this issue; although this is an indirect approach, it is quite understandable for those who want to understand.

For the problem as a whole is not only political but also a general one. What we have now is a spiritual crisis. There is no political crisis in Ukraine. No clear anti-governmental and opposition group exists in Ukraine. This is, rather, a power struggle. It is not a struggle to improve living conditions in Ukraine. And this, in turn, shows a spiritual void of all those who speak "for" or "against" government.

The Church can evoke a sense of responsibility for social well-being. Some people suggested: "It would be worthwhile for our Church to become a kind of intermediary." But I am not sure it would, because it is very difficult to understand the current political situation; I do not know whom to talk to and about what. Maybe we should give each person only bread and water for two weeks in order for them to come to their senses.

Q: Is it possible for the papal visit to become a moral rejuvenation for the people of Ukraine?

A: Yes, this is my strongest hope. Such a moral awakening is the greatest benefit we can expect from the visit.

Copyright © The Ukrainian Weekly, April 29, 2001, No. 17, Vol. LXIX

| Home Page |