INTERVIEW: The Rev. Dr. Borys Gudziak of Ukrainian Catholic University

by Andrew Nynka

NEW YORK - The future of the theology program at the Lviv-based Ukrainian Catholic University appears to have turned a corner with the election of a new Ukrainian president last winter. The school, which has roots that date back over 70 years, was officially opened on June 29, 2002. Though the school's theology program has been recognized internationally, the government of former Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma refused to recognize the degree, and the school's theology students suffered.

But now, says the Rev. Dr. Borys Gudziak, the current rector of the UCU, several meetings with Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko during the president's trip to Lviv may have put the school's theology department on the path to accreditation.

Prior to his meeting with Mr. Yushchenko, the Rev. Gudziak traveled to the United States, where school officials sought to raise money for the UCU and spread information about the school throughout the diapsora.

In addition to accreditation, the rector spoke about the physical expansion of UCU's facilities and the success the school has had recently in attracting more students, as well as the school's relationship with Orthodox Churches in Ukraine.

The Ukrainian Weekly spoke exclusively with the Rev. Gudziak, who holds a doctorate in history from Harvard University. Below is an edited portion of that interview.

Q: Can you tell me a little about your meetings with Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko? What did you discuss, and what impressions have you taken away from those meetings?

A: In the past two months I have had the opportunity to meet with President Yushchenko on two occasions. On February 16 he came to Lviv for the first time after his election and inauguration. During a public meeting of the rectors of the 18 institutions of higher learning in Lviv, I presented to the president two UCU theology students who were heroes in the revolutionary moment. Andrii Andrushkiv, a third-year student who had been an election observer from the Yushchenko camp in a small village in Odesa Oblast, and Olha Bosak who had organized the "Rizdvo Razom" program that brought 2,000 people from eastern Ukraine to Lviv for Christmas.

On November 21, late at night, when the election officials of the voting district tried to spirit away the ballot box for a falsified vote count, Mr. Andrushkiv threw himself in front of the wheels of a truck and thereby prevented at least one falsified ballot tabulation. When President Yushchenko heard the story, he got up from his chair at the head of the conference table and with tears in his eyes came up and embraced Andrii. For me this was a symbolic moment: finally Ukraine and its president himself was embracing a student of theology, and thus the whole discipline.

One of the big problems after the election was the perception that east and west Ukraine are separated by a profound chasm. Olha Bosak contributed to building a bridge across this divide by being a main coordinator of the "Rizdvo Razom" youth celebrations. She also represents the first group of women in Ukraine's 1,000-year Christian history to get a degree in theology in their homeland.

As the president was standing next to the two students I explained to him that despite the fact that these young people and their colleagues are willing to give their very lives for Ukraine, every time they try to buy a train ticket with a student discount, every time they show their ID card on public transportation or apply to other social service organizations expecting to get student services, Ukraine replies with a resounding "no." They are not students since they study in a non-existing discipline.

The president turned around with an astonished expression on his face, pointed a finger toward [State Secretary] Oleksander Zinchenko, [National Security and Defense Council Secretary] Petro Poroshenko, [Minister of Justice] Roman Zvarych and other government officials present at the head of the table, saying, "We, you have to do something about this." After sitting back down at his place before the leaders of the Lviv academic community and the assembled press, President Yushchenko declared: "We are looking to renew the presidential administration and Mr. Zinchenko is inviting young people who have principles and skills to work in the new presidential secretariat. I would like to propose to these two students a job in the new presidential secretariat." This was a dramatic sign that President Yushchenko means business in resolving the chronic problem of dispossessed theology students in Ukraine.

Q: And during the second meeting, had any progress been made with regard to having Ukraine recognize the theology department at the UCU?

A: Four weeks later I had a chance to meet the president at the gathering of Ukraine's rectors during the annual convention of the Ministry of Education regarding university-level institutions. The president reiterated his support and said that he is pushing the minister of education regarding the recognition of theology. The next day I had a one-hour meeting with Minister Stanislav Nikolayenko. Although there remain many attitudinal obstacles and we have quite a bit of bureaucratic work before us, I believe theology will soon be recognized as an academic discipline in Ukraine.

I am proud to say that UCU, its staff, and students have been persistent in their decade-long battle for the rights of theology, something that will benefit all the religious confessions of Ukraine. I also believe that the president realizes that without a firm foundation and moral criteria, his call for ethics in political, economic and social affairs will not be effective. Mr. Yushchenko knows what carried him and Ukraine through the recent trials, and he will not allow the further suppression of spiritual dignity and intellectual freedom.

Q: You left Ukraine on October 29, 2004, and traveled throughout a number of cities here in the United States. First of all was the trip successful? How many days was it?

A: I visited my parents for a couple days and then came to New York. We were basically here for a week and then in Philadelphia for a couple days, and then a week in Chicago. I was very touched by the warm reception. We wanted to share some good news from Ukraine, and there's a lot of troubling news from Ukraine. We're hoping for the best, but the last few years there have been a lot of disappointed expectations, and we wanted to give a good story. I find that, for myself, every day I almost need to pinch myself. In such a short time so many young people are showing leadership qualities and earning an education that is allowing them to work in a sphere that was totally forbidden in the Soviet Union.

Q: When you say you were touched by the warm reception, where do you mean specifically?

A: In New York, Philadelphia and Chicago - the three main places where we were. Whether the meetings were big banquets or small intimate gatherings, there was great interest, great warmth. "Blahoslovyty" - benediche - means to say good things about each other, and I felt very blessed in that sense by the reception.

Q: What was the purpose of the visit to the United States? Why did you have the receptions? And is it the first time such events were held with the rector of the Ukrainian Catholic University?

A: No. This is the first time in a long time, in almost two years. The purpose was to get news out. Frankly, we're looking for financial support, which the community is giving. Now in a way that is unprecedented. This was a very good trip in that regard. I think many people are realizing that the future of Ukraine is conditioned by, and depends on, how the future generations are formed. An investment into people is the most fruitful investment, and that's what we're trying to do.

Q: You said the trip was very successful. I heard that in Chicago you raised $200,000. Financially how successful was it?

A: No, no maybe $130,000. So maybe a total of $350,000.

Q: And where will the money go?

A: The money will go toward the Ukrainian Catholic University, toward operating expenses, various programs. Our budget is under $1 million, about $900,000 in 2004. We basically have an almost hand-to-mouth existence. We have about two months of reserves, and the endowment is very small. I think it's about $400,000, so if you take 5 percent from that it doesn't leave us with very much to work with. In the past, much of our funding has come from European foundations. They continue to be supportive, but as our institution has grown and expenses have grown, the Ukrainian Catholic Education Foundation in the U.S. has taken on an ever greater burden of our budget. So it's gone from about 15 percent to 50 percent this year.

Q: So the trip was beneficial financially. Were there any other ways, do you feel, that the trip was helpful?

A: We're a moral institution. What has happened on the level of atmosphere and spirit is essential to what we're doing. In the end, our programs, our buildings, our instruments are not the goal in themselves. We see that the Church and the Ukrainian Catholic University have an important role in consolidating society. And we can see that western Ukraine, where the Ukrainian Catholic Church is strong, is in many respects, and from many points of view, a society that has a discrete and strong sense of its identity in the face of social, political and cultural challenges.

Bringing Ukraine and Ukrainians in the greater world and the world at large together is one of the goals of the university. Patriarch Josyf [Slipyj] when he founded UCU in Rome over the front door wrote that "the wisdom of science brings together those who are dispersed." And I think there was a great coming together. People need to hear that there are good things in Ukraine. We need both moral and material support, and I think there was some mutual reinforcement.

I also want to let the community here know how it can increasingly benefit from what UCU is doing. It is now time that people can come from the U.S. and do their undergraduate work at UCU for a fraction of the price - receiving a top-notch education that will get them into graduate schools back in the U.S., as our students from Ukraine have been doing.

Q: Not just in religious fields but in the humanities?

A: Yes. We have one student at the school of public service at Syracuse University. It is considered the best school of public service, better than Harvard's, better than Stanford's. So we have students who maybe started in theology but have moved into other disciplines. We now have a humanities program which is focused on history, and we will develop other programs soon.

We had an excellent reception from the bishops. Bishop [Basil] Losten helped us very much here in the Stamford Eparchy and he has a long track record of organizing campaigns effectively both here and for Ukraine. We are very grateful to him. Bishop Richard Stefan Seminack in Chicago really prepared the road for us with his warmth and welcome, and we had a wonderful meeting with Metropolitan Stefan Soroka in Philadelphia.

Metropolitan Stefan is a member of the board of directors, which is called the Senate, of UCU. And we discussed how, for example, UCU might be able to help initiate new programs at the seminary in Washington by sending faculty. The metropolitan has revamped the seminary. It was just rededicated in September and now he is looking forward to having programs there - not only for seminarians and priests, but also for laypeople. We have 140 people teaching at UCU in different areas so that there are people that can come here and can teach in Ukrainian or in English.

Q: When Cardinal Lubomyr Husar was here in Philadelphia in late 2004 - speaking during the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America congress - he started talking about a moral compass. He called it a project that the Church in Ukraine was undertaking to redirect the people's moral compass. Is that something that you see UCU also doing with the people, whether it's in Ukraine or whether it's on this trip here?

A: Very much so. I think that is at the heart of the mission. We try to model - I am not saying that in all senses UCU is canonizable - but we try to maintain a certain work ethic in personal relations and in our relations with the outside world. We also work very closely with Patriarch Lubomyr in preparing many of the documents that he issues regarding questions of wages, questions of elections, questions of social justice. That is precisely what the mission of UCU is: to give society leaders that will help reorient the compass of Ukrainian society.

Q: A question on the theology program at UCU: some of those leaders you're trying to attract to a program which isn't accredited by the state; obviously that's going to be very difficult. Are you having problems with that, or have people still come nonetheless?

A: We have in the department that is the most affected [the theology department] the laypeople - because those who become seminarians will become priests, they have a job in the Church. But for the department where laypeople study we have 3.4 candidates for every opening. In fact, the number per opening has increased in the last year. People are attracted by the corruption-free zone that UCU represents, and also by the quality, first and foremost, of the education and the quality of the atmosphere in the institution.

Q: With regard to the cost of an UCU education, is it on par with other schools, on a per student basis? Is it higher, lower, the same?

A: It's hard to say because I don't know the exact budget of other universities in Ukraine. I think our cost per student, I would put it this way, our investment in each student is much higher. Or at least it is much higher in terms of personal attention. Our faculty to student ratio is probably the highest in the country. We have around 140 faculty, full and part time, 900 students - 450 full-time and 450 part-time. It is an institution where basically on a daily basis the students can see the rector, either at services or in class or in the hallways. This does not mean that I'm seeing students every minute. We have all together 300 staff people and I travel quite a bit. So, relatively speaking, it is a rather small institution.

We also are blessed with an excellent rectorate. People like Myroslav Marynovych, who spent 10 years in prison for really the moral compass. Jeffrey Wills, who dropped a very comfortable American life and has learned Ukrainian, established our foundation here and then moved to Ukraine. Olena Dzedzora, who I hope the readers will get to know while she is on a Fulbright here at Columbia over the years, a woman in the leadership of a Catholic university - and others.

It is a very good team. I have the luxury, the great joy and blessing of working with people who are smarter than I am, who are holier than I am and who are better managers. And there are lots of sparks, lots of ideas and lots of good humor. And I must say that it is a great grace to always have this sense that you are dealing with a group of people of high integrity. I'm not looking behind my back. There aren't political struggles. There aren't any cracks. We don't have crevasses developing. There is, I would say, integrity in that sense.

Q: Cardinal Walter Casper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said in 2002 that the Ukrainian Catholic Church could act as a model for unification of separated Churches because of where it stands, because of its history. Do you see this as a role for the Ukrainian Catholic Church?

A: I think that many Orthodox see the Eastern Catholics, and especially the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, not as a model but as a stumbling block. But I am convinced that we are very enriched by our Catholic communion and our Byzantine Eastern tradition and I think that the bottom line will be how well this Church pastorally responds to the needs of the people in society.

And I think our Church is taking responsible positions. During this past election campaign no other Church in Ukraine put together such a cohesive position regarding the election. One that is not politicized, one that is grounded in Christian ethics but in no way eschews the real issues of society. Not only the short-term issues, but the long-range issues. I think it is able to do that because it's rooted in Ukrainian tradition but at the same time open to universal perspective which the Catholic communion encourages it to keep in mind.

The ecumenical question and the question of ultimate unity is a great one. We are trying to work modestly at the grass-roots level. We have numerous Orthodox students and faculty at the Ukrainian Catholic University. In fact, Catholic for us has that meaning, particularly with a small "c," open, together with the whole, according to the whole. We believe it is that grass-roots approach that will bear long-term fruit.

Q: You mentioned pastoral needs. UCU has as part of its goal to educate priests for Ukraine. What is the situation currently with priests in Ukraine? Is there a shortage?

A: Ukraine is producing a great number of priests. In fact, the Lviv Archeparchy in the 1990s ordained more priests than any eparchy or diocese in the Catholic Church. Probably about 700 were ordained in the 1990s. The question now is to make sure that the quality corresponds to the quantity. The quality of the formation. That's why now, since 1994, there is a program of seven years of formation. And Father Bohdan Prach, the rector of the Holy Spirit Seminary, has done wonders in strengthening the seminary program and now he is completing the building of a new seminary complex. What will happen is that seminarians will study together with monks and laypeople in the same theology faculty building of the university, which is quite revolutionary.

In Eastern Europe seminarians are still separate from laypeople. Ours was a conscious choice precisely to help integrate the different sectors of the Church. In the Church there are often issues surrounding the dialectic between clergy and laity, between men and women, between religious orders and secular clergy. We are hoping that, by studying together, students who have different vocations, - but in the end one vocation to serve the Church and serve society - will become close friends. And a lay leader will be able to pick up a phone and call a monk, or a sister will pick up a phone and call a priest, and they will know each other as friends who have sat in the same classroom and have taken courses together.

We know how fraternities and other social bonding in student years, how effective it is for networking and good cooperation. Of course, we have the tradition of married priests and I think our hope is that some of the young women and young men who want to serve the Church will be able to do so as a family. We already have many examples of our students marrying each other. So that is the philosophy behind the center.

Q: Does that mentality of having different religious orders study together, work together, also apply to the Orthodox students at UCU?

A: Our Orthodox students will also be studying in that faculty building. It is happening in Catholic universities in the U.S. In fact most Orthodox theologians in the West have gotten their advanced degrees in either Catholic or Protestant universities. The patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew, whom I mentioned earlier, did his doctorate at the Pontifical Oriental Institute in Rome. A number of professors at St. Vladimir's Seminary have done their degrees at places like Notre Dame or Fordham University here in New York City. So there is actually quite a long history of that in the West. We hope to tap into the best of that tradition.

Q: The university, in terms of its history, most of it, as far as I know, has been spent either in the underground or suppressed. Where does it stand now? Do you feel it is still relegated to the background? Do you feel it's not been given its proper status?

A: Well, in terms of the lack of government recognition for theology, there clearly is a certain kind of marginalization. But you can be marginalized down or you can be marginalized up. It is clear in those circles that are interested in the humanities, and not only theology, but philosophy, history, classical studies, UCU is receiving great attention. Our research and publication program has received the top awards in the Ukrainian publishing world. This past year, there were nine books chosen as the best academic books in Ukraine. About 300 academic institutions publish academic books, and UCU got two of those nine awards. That is a choice made by peers.

We are a small institution and we can't run programs in all areas, but the quality of programs that are run at UCU are being recognized increasingly, not only in the avant guard. One of our greatest supporters was a leader of the Ukrainian feminist movement, Solomia Pavlychko, who died young. Prof. George Grabowicz, Prof. Ihor Sevcenko, Prof. Roman Szporluk have been our great supporters from the Harvard staff. We have excellent relations with the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies - the Peter Jacyk Center, Profs. Frank Sysyn, Serhiy Plokhiy and Zenon Kohut. These are relationships that we foster regularly, we're in touch, we're doing projects together.

So, UCU is not only functioning in Ukraine, it's not only functioning with theological institutions in North America and Europe, but it's also, I would say, a very important institution in terms of Ukrainian studies.

Q: The Ukrainian Catholic University was begun by Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky and developed by Patriarch Josyf Slipyj. Do you see yourself as following in the footsteps of two towering figures of Ukrainian religious history?

A: We consciously try to think the way they thought. To see exactly, because these were people, history is showing, that were visionary. We want to make sure we try and understand that vision. At the same time, we live in new times. We live in times when, maybe not so much towering personalities, but strong teams are the name of the game. I, myself, see my role primarily as a team builder. And if I can say anything with pride I would say that I've had a role in attracting to the university people who are more talented than me.

In many ways, I feel like we are the footstool for those who are going to stand on our shoulders. Whether it's colleagues right now, or subsequent generations. Without a doubt, Sheptytsky and Slipyj were greater-than-life figures and would be so in any context. However, I hope that in the future Ukraine will, and Ukrainian scholarship, Church life, social and parochial life, will be such that it will not need great individual heroes to save it. But that there will be a broadly-based, competent and productive vision. And that is something we're trying to incarnate already in the university.

Q: Is there something you'd like to highlight that you think I've missed? Is there something important you think that people should know about the university?

A: I would like to encourage Weekly readers to think about how they could make use of the university. We had 12 summer programs this past summer. Many of them, a number of them, were open to international students. We are constantly looking for people who can help out in Ukraine. We want to respond to the needs of the greater Ukrainian community. And to do that, well, it's good to have input.

I'd also like to bring attention to the Ukrainian Catholic Education Foundation, which has been headed by, successively, two non-Ukrainians who have dedicated themselves totally to the Ukrainian cause and are bringing significant non-Ukrainian financial resources to bear in the Ukrainian context. I hope that readers of The Weekly can support the foundation, which directly supports us. The foundation is looking for volunteers, it's looking to create a network of friends in different cities which can help host events. In that sense, connect people with the rebuilding effort in Ukraine.

Q: You mentioned the 12 summer programs. Is there an age minimum or maximum? Would they require a great commitment of time?

A: Most of the programs require that someone have completed high school or college, and they are summer programs, so they are from a week to five weeks long.

Q: Is it something they could receive credit for?

A: Yes. There is a theology summer school, for example, that is run together with the Sheptytsky Institute in Ottawa and is accredited in North America. We also have a Ukrainian studies program - Ukrainian history, culture and language - which is run with the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, St. Thomas Moore College. Other programs are shorter. I would send people to the website to find more out: www.ulu.edu.ua/eng/.

Copyright © The Ukrainian Weekly, May 1, 2005, No. 18, Vol. LXXIII

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