A conversation with Ukrainian writer Oleksander Irvanets (10/16/05)

A conversation with Ukrainian writer Oleksander Irvanets

by Leonid Rudnytzky

On September 3, Oleksander Irvanets, Ukrainian poet, prose writer and dramatist, arrived in the United States. He has come here on a Fulbright grant that will enable him to stay in this country until May 2006. His topic of research is contemporary American drama; his host institution is La Salle University in Philadelphia.

Following is the text of an interview conducted by Dr. Leonid Rudnytzky, professor of comparative literature at La Salle University and the University of Pennsylvania. The translation is by Nicholas Rudnytzky.

Q: Welcome to the United States, which you are, as I understand it, visiting for the first time. It is well known that your plays are staged in Ukraine and beyond its borders, especially in Germany. What brings you here to the United States?

A: Thanks to the Fulbright Grant I have the opportunity to become acquainted with the latest achievements of American dramaturgy. As a dramatist, I am very much interested in the most recent plays being staged in American theaters. The concept "Contemporary Dramaturgy" unfortunately, practically does not exist in Ukraine - the plays of Ukrainian authors often have to wait years in order to be staged. As a member of the jury of the great theater festival which is held at Wiesbaden, Germany, I'm often envious to see how interesting and exciting plays of Ukraine's neighbors, Poland and Russia, are brought and staged there. I am particularly interested in American dramaturgy and the theatrical staging methods utilized here. Perhaps the knowledge gained in this country will enable me to invigorate the theater life of Ukraine.

I intend to translate several of the newest American plays into Ukrainian. Ideally the end product of my research should be an anthology of contemporary American drama in Ukrainian, although it could also be simply a series of articles on the subject.

Q: You are known primarily as a poet. In addition to Viktor Neborak and Yuri Andrukhovych, you are one of the famous literary triad known as "Bu Ba Bu" [burlesk, balahan i bufonada - that is to say: burlesque, farce and buffoonery]. You are also renowned as a prose writer, especially because of your best selling novel "Rivne/Rovno" and to be sure you have also authored several plays. What is your favorite genre?

A: Thanks for the good question. Certainly the most honorable title would be to call myself a poet. However, my poetry has become more and more rare. In its place I write prose because in prose one can say more, one can look deeper into the essence of things.

Sometime ago I composed plays and some of them, to my great surprise, were staged in the theaters of Germany, Luxembourg, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. Last June my play "The Liar from Lithuanian Square," which takes place in the Polish city of Lublin, was staged right there in the central square of Lublin itself. They actually closed the center of the city to traffic during its staging.

Q: In Germany, which we just mentioned, there is a feeling of nostalgia among some intellectuals and artists - a yearning for the days of Socialism - for the GDR. An example of this is the very popular film "Goodbye Lenin" as well as various publications. Is there a similar trend in Ukraine?

A: This question is rather complex and not easily answered. Certainly there is a part of the Ukrainian populace which yearns for Soviet times, but this group of people is constantly shrinking; and not only because the pensioners are passing away. Among middle-age and advanced-age people there is a process of re-evaluation of values.

To give you an example, at the latest convention of the Communist Party of Ukraine, its leader, Petro Symonenko, complained that even today's pensioners differ strikingly from the pensioners of Soviet days - they no longer enthusiastically and wholeheartedly embrace communist ideals.

Insofar as I'm concerned, let me state that in the days of my youth I looked at the map of the world with a sense of despair. We were constantly told that the "World of Socialism" occupies one-sixth of the globe, and I always sadly thought to myself that there are five more parts of this globe completely denied to me. We were forced to be politically loyal; to attend repulsive party and union meetings which lasted five to six hours in order to be allowed to have two weeks' state-controlled vacations in Poland or Czechoslovakia. Even a trip to Yugoslavia, for a Soviet citizen, was a journey into the "dangerous Western world."

Things have changed. I have since visited all of Europe. I had a good time in Paris and Amsterdam. I have seen my plays staged in Stuttgart, Leipzig and Munich, and yet, even today, sometimes, when I slumber, I return to those Kafkaesque times of the past.

Q: What is the current status of Ukrainian literature? Does literature still fulfill the important social function that it once did, or has television taken over?

A: Yuri Andrukhovych once aptly remarked that Ukrainian literature is becoming so good that soon nobody is going to read it. To be sure, that is an exaggeration. However, since the independence of Ukraine the functional significance of Ukrainian literature has truly changed. Literature has ceased to be a factor in the national, patriotic sphere and has become that which it should have been all along, namely, art. Suddenly authors realized that to write well is extremely difficult. This is especially the case if you want to be heard not only in your own country, but also beyond its borders.

Sometime at the end of the '80s and the beginning of the '90s a new generation, the so-called "Visimdesiatnyky" (the 80-ers group), to which I also have the honor to belong, came to be. My contemporaries - among them are some truly renowned writers - are creating a new and beautiful literature. Although the majority of the people traveling to and from work on the Kyiv subways read Russian detective novels, I was gratified to see, not too long ago, how one young girl was reading a book by the Lviv-based novelist Yurko Vynnychuk. I also had the good fortune to see how people totally unknown to me were reading my books. This is, indeed, a very gratifying experience for a writer.

But the important thing is that we are being read by university students who are the future intellectual elite of Ukraine. These are young people who, in a year or two, will be occupying important positions in society and they will know that contemporary Ukrainian literature exists - this cannot be said about the present elite of our nation.

Q: Don't you think that in today's world, the so-called "trivial literature" and pop culture, play a leading role in the formation of a society's culture? I've said it many times that the representatives of Ukrainian culture today are not Taras Shevchenko the poet, but Andriy Shevchenko the soccer player. Not Lesia Ukrayinka the writer, but Ruslana Lyzhychko the entertainer. Not the brothers Cyril and Methodius, the apostles of the Slavs, but rather the pugilist brothers Klitschko. What are your thoughts on this?

A: All the names you have mentioned are professionals of the highest caliber. To be sure, I personally often regret that neither Andriy Shevchenko nor the brothers Klitschko use the Ukrainian language. Nonetheless, they are truly world stars and therefore are doing very much good for our country.

Regarding "trivial literature," as you so put it, I myself would love to write detective novels like Agatha Christie or write songs like Jim Morrison. I think the situation is going to change in the next few years and in the Kyivan subways we will see more and more people reading Ukrainian authors. One cannot live exclusively on artichokes and anchovies, one also desires salo and black bread.

Q: What do you know about and what is your attitude toward our leading organizations and institutions such as the Shevchenko Scientific Society, the Ukrainian Academy of Arts and Sciences or the Ukrainian Free University in Europe? Are they well-known in Ukraine and, if so, what do people think about them?

A: I cannot claim to know all the details and nuances of the social and scholarly life of the Ukrainian diaspora. Certainly the institutions you mentioned are well-known to me. Even in Soviet days one could get surreptitiously a book which was published in the West. I remember how I once sacrificed a whole night's sleep to clandestinely read Yuri Lavrinenko's anthology "Rozstrilyane Vidrodzhennya." Some news and information did seep through from the West.

I am simply overjoyed that Ukrainians on this side of the ocean did not lose their identity. In one way or another they stuck together, worked together and when Ukraine finally gained its independence, it was largely due to the fact that you were with us. The material and moral support given by the diaspora in the making of Ukraine's independence was, in my opinion, priceless.

The enemies of Ukraine knew about your existence here. They hated you and they tried to fight you and that is the most eloquent testimony to your strength and significance.

Q: You have received one of the most prestigious American grants. You could have chosen any U.S. university. Why did you come to Philadelphia, and why did you chose La Salle University?

A: Philadelphia, as far as I know, was the first capital of the United States - or am I mistaken? In any case - I know that this city is one of the most important cities in the United States; it was a cradle of democracy; the birthplace of the U.S. Constitution ... In addition, I was also attracted by the geographic location of the city - East Coast and near to both New York and Washington.

Insofar as La Salle University is concerned - it is, as far as I know, the institution to which, over the years, many Ukrainian writers have traveled and I wished to uphold this tradition.

Q: How do you imagine the future of Ukrainian literature and your own future in it?

A: Thank you for the insightful question. In Ukraine, over the last few years, there is an on-and-off discussion about when a Ukrainian author will finally receive the Nobel Prize in literature. I personally do not participate in those discussions, and do not anticipate any awards. When I receive one, however, such as the Fulbright Grant, I am overjoyed and most thankful. However, I am certain that in my lifetime (and I am now 44 years old and hope to live for still quite some time), the world will hear a Nobel Prize lecture in the Ukrainian language. I would be honored to witness such an event and will be aware of my intimate connection to it.

Every great writer, or poet, has had his contemporaries, friends and like-minded fellows. These are the people who make up the environment and the formation of every genius. I have no doubt that the future Ukrainian Nobel Prize winner has already been born, that he or she is walking the earth, writing works and presenting them to the people. All that remains is to wait until that name will become known to all...

We, the writers, must simply continue to write.

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